Same Place Again, 9 Independent Street, Bolton

 

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Folds Road pictured in 2012 (copyright Google). Benchmark House in the foreground marks the site of the Folds Road Independent Methodist Church. To the rear is Regent House. The site of the Same Place Again beerhouse is at the back of Regent House.

The Folds Road Independent Methodist Church was opened in April 1823 on land once occupied by the bowling green of the Three Tuns  pub on Chapel Street. A small street ran down the side of the church in the direction of the River Croal and it was named Independent Street in honour of the church. By 1825 small cottages were being built along the street down to its junction with Green Street. Two of these cottages were later to become the Same Place Again beerhouse.

The first evidence we have of the pub is an entry in the 1869 Bolton Directory which shows Edwin Smethurst as the licensee. Born in 1839, Smethurst was working as a warehouseman on the other side of the River Croal in Great Bolton when he married Sarah Worthington in 1862. How he got into the pub business isn't known but his father-in-law Henry Worthington was a brewer and given that most pubs brewed their own beer that may have overcome one barrier to setting up in business. Edwin Smethurst left the Same Place Again in March 1870. He later moved to Noble Street, off Derby Street, and he died in Farnworth in 1921 at the age of 81.

The next licensee was John Horrobin but by November 1870 the pub was being run by Ellis Marshall. Ellis's brother was Daniel Marshall who ran the nearby Grapes Hotel pub and brewery as well as the Horse Shoe Brewery on Water Street, again not too far away. Marshall was a brewer – he was later a co-founder of Magee, Marshall's in 1885 – and it is likely that he bought the pub and put Ellis in charge. An 1883 licence transfer shows that Marshall had to install himself as licensee following the death of the incumbent Mr Valentine before it could be transferred to R.J. Brundett. It was common for breweries to install a manager or proprietor as a stop-gap licensee to enable a pub to continue trading.

In 1903 the licence of the Same Place Again changed twice. This was an indication of just how competitive the market was. The following year magistrates tried to close down the pub. At that time there was a purge of pubs where the rateable value was less than £15 a year. At the annual licensing session it was claimed that the Same Place Again ought to close because the rateable value was only £14 10 shillings (£14.50). There is a brief description of the pub in the Bolton Evening News' report of the hearing printed in their edition of 1 March 1904.

“The premises were formerly two cottages, and one doorway had been bricked up. The sanitary condition was moderate.” 

It seems the valuers were trying to reduce the rateable value on the grounds that one half of the premises had once been a house. The rateable value of a residential property was lower than that of a commercial property. Mr Byrne, who represented owners Magee, Marshall, argued the case for the pub claiming it wasn't fair to value a property on the basis of adjoining premises. The landlord had spent £60 on improvements. He also brought in two surveyors both of whom insisted that the rateable value was in excess of £17.

The Same Place Again survived on this occasion but its luck ran out when there was another objection two years later. At the annual licensing sessions of 1906 the chief constable of the borough objected to the renewal of 11 licences on the grounds that they were “undesirable in the public interest”. Magistrates heard that a manager was now in charge of the pub and that weekly sales were just three-and-a-half barrels of beer plus a quarter of a barrel of stout. An indication of the competition in this part of Bolton was that Detective Inspector Smith, representing the chief constable, claimed there were nine fully-licenced public houses, 11 beer houses and one off-licence all within 200 yards.[Bolton Evening News 7 February 1906]. Three months later the closure of the Same Place Again was confirmed along with eight of the other ten licenses objected to. [Bolton Evening News, 9 May 1906]. The two that escaped were the Old Cock on Green Street which lasted until 1935, and the Weavers Arms on Brunel Street which still exists today and is popularly known as 'The Mop'.

All that remained now was the level of compensation payable to Magee, Marshall as owners of the pub. They put in a claim for £1050 but the magistrates offered only £700. At a hearing of the Compensation Committee early the following year Magees indicated they would accept £800. [Bolton Evening News, 9 January 1907]. Some reports have suggested that the level of compensation was £700 [Manchester Courier, 10 January 1907].

The Same Place Again became a boarding house and was run by Patrick Gorman according to the 1924 directory.

Much of the area between Folds Road and the River Croal was cleared in the late-sixties for the construction of St Peters Way. For many years the area that was once occupied by Independent Street formed part of the Folds Road car park. However, in 2005 the Vinden Partnership was given planning permission to build two office buildings on the site of the car park. The site of the Same Place Again is now occupied by Regent House.